Dismissing the obvious obsequious as otherwise unfounded and knowing "I would strike the sun if it offended me"? _Verily_, Bill. I'm on my feet and applauding.

We won't likely know what that "reality" is, even on a path to same, just what rings our individual bell about it. We don't know anything because we don't perceive everything,

"Certainty" about anything is an illusion and the guy with the biggest gun or the biggest mouth presses his point home most "conclusively." See, as example, Michael Horn's ridiculous statement that "...there is no doubt" is matched only by David Biedny's equally ridiculous statement that "...there is no doubt "! Follow?

...Sure and all 90% is bullshit —whatever that means— but then 90% of everything is bullshit. "Trust no one," is not useful because you have to trust yourself, and "the truth is out there," may be true... but I suspect not for you and me. We'll have to snatch that victory from the jaws of defeat, _individually_, eh?

All that said: the cat's not dead 'till you look in the box, uncertainty _is_ the principle of all things, all things _are_ relative, and it is enough to abundance to be on the "path," at all... even without the faux-guarantee we'd appreciate the nature of the *destination*.

Like you, I can only write what I'm feeling, Bill, and 60 years in the corporeal embroiled in mud, blood, and beer all over the planet has shown me pretty conclusively that very little is as it appears. Too, that perception is the operational reality even as it does not truly _reflect_ reality. Reality is _your_ best guess at the denouement. Mine, too. Anything else is cake icing.

¥

Excellent post Bill! Why is it that so many -- UFO researchers, "believers" as well as debunkers and "skeptoids" -- can't get that? It seems so damn obvious! And yet we have so many people crying for "standards" and "rules" and 'cleansing the UFOlogical landscape" etc.

The very things some want to get rid of, like the "charlatans" (and they do exist) are a part of it all, and it can't go away, because it's part of the system. As you say, who's right, who's wrong, etc.
It's just always so astounding to me grown ups -- adults -- behave like bullying, vindictive middle schoolers. How can we take anything these kinds of people have to say about UFOs when they behave so badly?

Alfred, you are indeed a Hotspur.

We must keep the field open to all and not close it because A or B says C's opinions should be banned.

And in so doing:

We'll so offend to make offense a skill,
Redeeming time when folks* think least we will.

*We must be politically correct

Tell a man to go hell so he enjoys the trip, as well...

"Prince Hal set it up perfectly. His plan was to deceive others by acting irresponsibly so that when he revealed his true colors -- his bravery, strength of character, and loyalty -- all the world would be amazed at the transformation."

Woe that I was old enough or young enough to know everything... you know?

¥

This is for Dr. Birnes from Laura.

When we share stories of the UFO phenomena, we are asking people to have faith in us just as they have faith in God or certain matters of concern to them. We tell them that our experience is a test of our very own faith. But whether they believe us or not, remember who it is that ultimately validates our world--not others, only us.

Don't feel another person must confirm or verify our experience to feel what we've experienced was true. We may not have all the answers to our questions. Nobody does. But we won't despair and we shall never give up. Faith and trust begins with one person. One person must truly unconditionally accept a feeling or experience in spite of how odd that feeling or experience is. It must be accepted in spite of doubters, disbelievers or even critics. And that one person who we can count on to reaffirm our experiences is ourselves and not others. Start with us. When we believe in ourselves, worrying about recruiting others to our beliefs won't seem to matter as much.

Dr. Birnes, I'd like, if I may, include this quote from Roosevelt:

It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.~ Theodore Roosevelt

And one more quote, sir (from me to you):

"One repays a teacher badly if one always remains nothing but a pupil."
~ Nietzsche

Regards,

Laura Burne

Having just listened to a two-hour recorded podcast featuring yet another ufology expert having his 15 minutes of fame, I've had an epiphany. Some ufologists are emotionally stuck in puberty or early adolescence playing out adventure fantasies that most outgrow. They still believe comic books are real.

To preserve their illusions they need buy in from the rest of the world, and will go to great lengths to get it (mis-representing, mis-interpreting, mis-stating, etc.).

I just listened to a man more than old enough to know better (his wife must truly be an earthly saint) who wants to go on a wild goose chase in middle-Europe to hunt for a buried "artifact" spurred on by a story he's heard either second- or third-hand that sounds like something straight out of the boys' fiction books of his youth. He even has drawings of the "artifact" so it must be real.

This isn't even close to serious, dispassionate scientific investigation of the UFO phenomenon. This is the somewhat touching case of an aging man who wants one more rollicking great boyhood adventure before he dies; a man who, by the way, is counting on donations from other UFO believers (and maybe Stephen Spielberg) to bankroll this quest.

Since the podcast ended, I can't get an old Bob Dylan refrain from going round and round in my head ... "Don't follow leaders ... ". Good advice in any situation, but especially when it comes to ufologists.

Just wondering why lanicaprio would bother listening to 2 hours of a podcast that the he/she found so ridiculous?

Either he/she was entertained or they need a lobotomy.

What is wrong with listening to people who have dreams that aren't entirely realist? Sorry, but I forget the reasoning. Oh yeah, now I remember -- I am one of the few people who listen to such things that can understand entertainment value, everyone else expects something from internet podcasts that they will never get. It is really a shame. Such "serious" individuals only harm themselves.

I don't even understand how someone could be so "serious" about ufo "facts."

What are the facts? Strange shit shows up in the sky and nobody can truly scientifically observe it because there are no repeatable results (which are essential for scientific reasearch).

Perhaps I am misjudging lanicaprio. Perhaps I did not understand the gist of the post?

Great post. It's interesting to note that the variety of responses here actually reflect, to a degree, the kind of divisiveness we see in ufology :). What do any of us really know about the UFO issue? Nothing, except what we think we know. Perhaps the infighting and discord is all part of some 'master plan' to promote obfuscation and keep us in the dark. Or perhaps not. Personally, I enjoy the fact that it's a mystery, and I truly hope the truth is not too mundane - if we ever discover it.

In the end, perhaps the mystery is all we will have because even the folks who are staring at the UFO right are caught up in the mystery of how the thing works

All is mystery; but he is a slave who will not struggle to penetrate the dark veil.

~ Benjamin Disraeli

Hi Bill, I was wanting to ask you a question, have you ever met Bob Lazaar and talked to him eye to eye about his story of studying actual spacecraft from another world or dimension? If so did he seem sincere to you? Thanks Bill and take care.

John's Detectors

Dear Dr. Birnes:

It may interest you to know that although our school has no formal program in ufology, a colleague and I have taught a course examining the prospects for life beyond our planet that delves into the area. We used “Here Be Dragons - The Scientific Quest for Extraterrestrial Life” by David Koerner and Simon LeVay as a text and starting point, but students were also required to find and assess their own information sources. Our approach was purely existential.

Perhaps others will heed your words and adopt your ideals and tolerance. However, each of us will still filter information through a unique prism of past experience and perspective. For me, that particular point of view will be that of a scientist relentlessly seeking rigor and solid logic. Everyone will come at this from a different point with the sole common factor being that we all must weigh everything in hand and decide where we stand today. Perhaps tomorrow everything will be different.

As a scientist and educator, although I remain unconvinced about the true nature of UFOs, I thank you for your efforts and applaud your courage. By the way, we never did reach any firm conclusions in our classes, either. But we sure did have a great time dissecting and debating this fascinating subject.

To all UFO hunters of this world - the very best of luck. May you bring back the proof we all agree is real.

Hi, John,

Yes, I have met Bob Lazar and have spoken to George Knapp about Bob's story. George Knapp on KLAV-TV is probably the most authoritative source about Bob Lazar, outside of Art Bell, because of the numbers of interviews George has conducted and his investigation into the entire story. Bob is a credible guy, typical of the way the black world works and the way they treat people whom they hire. His story of element 115 and the candle that stopped flickering when some kind of beam was focused on it makes sense and comports with the visual observations of folks like Kenneth Arnold.

Why is it that the overwhelming majority of people in this field will defend charlatans and the dumb people who believe in them before they will even contemplate standards for the field?

The argument I keep hearing is, "Who is to judge who's dumb and who's a charlatan?" I've finally found the answer: Me. I will. If no one else wants the job, I'll take it :)

Hi Bill, thank you for your response and I was just curious. I have no doubt that when one becomes involved with the government in these Black Projects they are sworn to say nothing or else! I read Mr.Friedman's opinion of Bob Lazar and it is very critical of Bob Lazar's story. Again thanks Bill and take care.

John's Detectors

Stan is critical of Lazar, but he did catch him in a couple of what appear to be lies. It is kind of besides the point though, a couple lies (if they were lies) does not make the entire story false. There is one thing that we know for certain - Bob Lazar took people out to Area 51, told them what night and what time they would be able to see these crafts and sure enough there were crafts and several witnesses saw them. Either Lazar had inside information from somewhere (like working at Area 51) or he is the luckiest charlatan on earth.

I heard a good hypothesis on Lazar last night based on info from one of his best buds, which is that he really did work there but didn't see alien ships. He was drugged and made to "see" them.

Lazar once told me, as he told Art Bell and George Knapp, that he never saw actual alien craft at Area 51. He only saw our attempts either to hybridize or reverse engineer those craft because we couldn't get the propulsion systems right. In fact, others, who know about retrieved alien spacecraft have complained about the same thing: we can't reverse engineer the propulsion systems. We can get the antigravity generators to work to some degree, but space propulsion is simply beyond our technological reach right now.

It would have made no point to drug Lazar and then punish him for brining his wife and friend to the base to look at the craft buzzing around. I have to go with George Knapp on this story that Lazar is telling the truth at core, that his name did turn up on employment documents, and that his own admission of his foolishness in compromising his own job got him fired.

The thing that fascinates me about the Lazar story is that he wasn't really qualified to work there. Not to say he was totally unqualified, but certainly wasn't what you would think would be the best for the job. Also, I know that they must do an exhaustive background check and psychological profiling of people they hire on at area 51. So I have always wondered if he wasn't hired for the precise purpose of leaking that information. Perhaps they thought it would have the effect of making the population believe that all UFOs belong to us and are just secret US technology. It did have that effect on many people, but maybe just not as many as they had hoped.

Bob Lazar is indeed an enigma. Apparently he:

A). Has more than a high school education, whether it is formal or not. One without any education doesn't tend to go around inventing solar powered hydrogen generators, so there is definately a bright light on in his head.

B). Still has some financial and business connections with the black side of the military. His company openly claims to have contracts with military entities that cant be discussed in public.

C). He was willing to put himself and his family through a horrendous period of ridicule and scoffing for much longer than was needed to prove his point. I would have given up on the Area 51 claims long before he did, which to me is a profound indication of his passion about the subject matter.

D). Has had some of the more subtle claims he has made about Area 51 corroborated by other sources since he "came out". Small details like procedural base operations and personnel types etc.

E). Is still a successful man irregardless of what anyone else wants to think. Has not wavered in the least bit by the debunking and ridicule. No, he won't talk about the late "80's and early "90's anymore but he seems to be getting along on just fine.

I am not going to sit on the fence or hang out in the gray, foggy areas of thought about whether or not to believe him and his claims, past or present.

I am going to take it all at face value at this point and believe what he is and what he has claimed to experienced in the past to be true. Simply because of what he appears to have accomplished for himself since then. There is absolutely no reason anyone on this planet would willingly continue to be publicly lampooned as long as he was if there wasn't something there, something to his story, his claims. I mean, he was like a man on a mission for what, 4-6 years? To what end? What, did the government tell him that if he kept up his shenanigans for a decade that they would make it right for him somewhere down the road? Yeah right, our government is a real pro at appeasing individuals isn't it?

I think we had better pay close attention to Bob and others like him. This planet is without a doubt littered with crackpots and inventors selling the next miracle product. But if we aren't careful, if we don't stop painting all people with fantastic claims of changing the future or solving some insurmountable problems from his garage in BFE, we will as a race will miss out.

Some if not most of these people are hands down different and eccentric but that shouldn't disqualify them as being intelligent.

It's called working outside the box and it's a lot weirder working that way versus working/thinking using conventional means. These backyard/garage inventors don't have the safety net of corporate money, group mentality (unless one considers the net their group) and dump truck loads of resources from which to draw upon.

Omigod, I'm ranting aren't I?

Sorry about that---sugar rush.

Just checking in Bill, What's been happening? I have a few UFO stories myself. Good stuff on UFO Hunters.

It's a long way from Waco but my stories have been featured on the History Channel also. The GANGLAND series.

Richard Valdemar
calgangsarge@yahoo.com