Hi Nancy!

Thanks for your kind words!

You couldn't win with that either way -- either you would be accused of being racist by association or you would be accused of not allowing freedom of speech. There is no easy answer for that one.

Icke's stuff is horribly flimsy at best. It's all channelled, no facts, and that's a crock. Plus Leuder's motivations are questionable at the very least. Check your facts and do a reality check before you go believing in this fluffy stuff.

Thanks for showing a little courage and taking your own alien view if I may.

One does not, of needs, advocate in a courages evaluation... and _you_ remain as one of the few willing to unceasingly undertake an investigation to prosecute just that... the evaluation without any advocacy. Thank you; you are an inspiration.

With regard to reptiles in our institutions and statehouses... how could they be anything more? Apart from that one only has to witness the reptilian behavior of the transnational corporation for evidence that something cold blooded is at the root of _all_ our woes. Lets explore that... who's talking about it... ok, ...what's he got?

Is that advocacy? I don't think so.

Glad you took a break... it's that kind of behavior allowing one to hang in for the long hall... grok the arriving concrescence. [g]. Horses will be wishes and beggars _will_ ride.

It occurs to me that it's my own damn fault if my stomach gets turned, you know? I'm confident you don't put anything in the magazine specifically for that purpose. Which is to say you did the right thing without regard to who ends up projectile vomiting, eh?

Hey man, looks like you through out your brain with the bong water! Icke is just a racist like any other racist. Anybody remember before the civil rights movement, and they pointed their fingers and screamed NIGGER. Anybody read about the burning times, and the pointed their fingers and screamed WITCH. And now Icke is pointing his fingers and screaming SHAPESHIFTING REPTILIANS. How can you honestly feel right about printing such racist tripe?

Hey man -- you write like you just got busy with a jalapeño suppository.

This is apart from how compellingly uncompelling you are. See, the more reflexively outraged and insulting the "criticism" the more compelling can become that thing so criticized.

You do your position no great service... so much in fact that you must indeed be a less than competent fellow for Mr. Icke and attempting to garner a sympathy for him. Tsk.

See, it doesn't matter because at the denouement? The truth won't fear investigation, discussion, debate, or inquest. That'll be true on all sides of the aisle, right?

How's _zat_ "bong water," Mr. Cartright?

People who give credit only to themselves as being able to know right and wrong always amaze me. It is that kind of thought that leads to book burning and other forms of suppression. I seriously doubt that UFO Mag readers are going start a movement of cross burning or something due to an interview with Icke. I believe 99% of people are smarter than that and the ones that aren't will seek out hateful doctrine or come up with their own. If Icke is a racist, why not show that for all to see?

I have not received my latest UFO Mag. Maybe it's late because I don't order it wrapped. My thinking is why not let postal workers read what may interest them but might not buy for themselves because of fear of ridicule.

But, anyway, David Icke and others conspiracists (and I don't necessarily mean that in a negative way) seem to fixate on a reptilian agenda. I've read theories about RH Negatives being abduction experiencers, hybrids, shapeshifters and channelers of reptilian alien overlords and so on.

The Jewish and English Royal Family connection that Icke and some others make is hard to fully understand. Aside from inbreeding that occured in both groups which may create unusual looking people (Prince Charles and Larry King for examples),... I think it's best left alone. No one wants to be tagged anti-semitic, which Icke has been accused of...rightly or wrongly.

I don't support Hate Speech Laws though...arresting*indicting*prosecuting*jailing people for politically incorrect thoughts. Truth should win out over lies. And if it cannot, maybe it's not the truth. So, good for UFO MAG for having an Icke interview!

Note to Joan ~ Yes, I've read about the Burning Times, in depth. It's the hatred of the Feminine and I wouldn't be surprised if happens again ...even in our country with its freedom of religion. Scapegoats are always in demand.

People who give credit only to themselves as being able to know right and wrong always amaze me.

Ding! I'll be using _that_! For myself, I find a certain lack of "certitude" about some things pretty useful precluding a lot of intellectual back-tracking and so avoiding a plethora of depressing disappointments.

Icke is educational if, for no other reason, he shows the folly in getting too wrapped up in your own belief systems. It is only a qualitative jump between Jim Marrs and David Icke. Icke is Marrs' evil twin - an "Ickey" Dorian Gray painting to the dashing "conspiracy hero" Marrs.

But both are little more than modern day snake oil salesmen. People who peddle fear for a living are contemptuous at best, whether they be fringe authors or political leaders of "the greatest Nation on earth". Ultimately it all is a snare trap for your mind. Why do you think they have to put a Madison Avenue smiley face on that freakin' koolaid pitcher?

Perhaps Icke articles should be presented with a boldly printed qualifier at the beginning: "Kids, don't try on this mindset at home!"

Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but it is my belief that thinking people can recognize a snare trap when they see one. Those who fail at this mundane task simply have not learned to use their mind for its designated purpose. Their cognitive license should be revoked. Hell, I can figure that out even while creating gallons of bubbling bong water....

No Olympians were pointlessly shamed while composing this posting.

(p.s. Nancy said I was erudite! Nancy, you are sooo kool! :o)

Maybe you guys should cool it on the bong hits! Like Mike Good said, Icke is nothing more than a modern day snake oil saleman. Everyone that's into this stuff knows that. Why give good magazine space to another snark? The article is poorly written as well. Hey I thought you guys had an editor on board. Probably those bong hits...together with no common sense. Get a clue, and better writers!

"People who give credit only to themselves as being able to know right and wrong always amaze me."

Authoritarians I think we could call them. You know, passed a mouth-breathing sneer and its attendant juvenile insult? There is little, to bupkis, there, actually, eh?

Hi Alicia,

Congratulations on being the first one to see this new issue! I haven't gotten my copies yet and as far as I know, the post office is only now moving them along. So, you must live in a blessed place, for sure.

I would also find it very helpful if you would point out where you think the article is badly edited. It's a conversation, and I tried to keep the patois intact while letting the Icke shine through. I failed at that, I believe. He will seem smarter to the reader than he did to the editor.

And yes, there was an editor. You should have seen the cutting-room floor! Mostly libelous, litigious fluff better left in the bin. These are all metaphors, of course, just like the bong water. I perform all editing strictly under the influence of coffee.

Lousy journalism at it's worst. It is too bad you don't interview more credible authors and researchers in the UFO field. In my opinon, Icke is a jerk. I have read his books and I don't feel his work is valid. And I agree with Alicia Gomez that most of your magazine could more professional editing. Sorry Nancy.

We have command saying in the military. At Ease! It means relax.

We have a command in the military. At Ease! It means relax.

If you take life too seriously you'll never get out alive.

Most of the magazine really sang this issue. I must agree with some of the others on this blog though. I think Icke is a bigot at best. I would sure like to see more factual stories rather than channelled articles. Thanks Nancy.

I think the thing that irritates me so much about the entirely presumptuous and importunate "substance" references is that these writers presume an intimacy with these substances that... they themselves must have, apart from being misleading, mischaracterizing, and misattributing, in the accusation of a similar intimacy with such, eh?

There is a vague suggestion that I write like I am on drugs? Well according to what I've been hearing from disparate sources I can only say, thank you! No, really! Thank you. Maybe that's some small indication that I'm in touch with something unusual and so adding quality to a magazine focused on a singular aspect regarding the paranormal: UFOs, whatever they are. Maybe you get you money's worth.

That said, abandon all hope ye who enter here. Faith gets tested and no thing is above individual inquisition. Wear a cup, buckle in, and bite a rag. Offense to the Cartesian-istas is expected and philosophical outrage is de rigueur.

Why just on my own for at least the next five months I'll be exploring big tickets like: why "rules of evidence" is dependent on consistent rules and accepted evidence. How Common Sense is overrated. Why Conventional Wisdom is no longer conventional and hardly wisdom. How science method is undermined and made irrelevant by its own most rabid adherents. How Peer Review abandons the public trust with cowardly peers and moronic reviews. Gloves are off and jungle rules, eh?

...And that's just to start with a regard to editorship abundantly adequate in a magazine insisting upon being well out of the _usual_ box, right? I suspect so. Read on.

I hope the sniping over Icke has ended. He is not worthy of the time and space taken up here nor the discord he has caused. Irrelevance at best.
Personally,I am here to learn and on occasion to hopefully add something of value. In my opinion,this is the most honest and informative forum on the net dealing with the paranormal. The valuable comments and updates have really set my little mind to a great deal of thought and further research. Many thanks to all for that!
Alfred,"Common Sense" is not overrated. I believe it is the "lack of" that has our world in its present predicament. If it were possible, would our Founding Fathers be rolling in their graves and: A.Screaming B.Crying
C.Laughing at our stupidity or D.All of the above?
The old adage "Man rises to his highest level of incompetency" should be changed to "Men" and then applied to our three branches of government. The result of the loss of "Common Sense".
BTW, you do not write like you are on drugs, more like you have memorized the latest collegiate dictionary. Verbiage may be difficult for some.
Now,let me get into my foxhole. OK.

Fox hole's not required, Good Sir! At least 'till you throw an elbow or lob a shell... talk 'bout some-un's Momma! Good to go 'till then [g].

I hear and acknowledge the "conventional wisdom" on "common sense" with all respect... only the other side of that is ...Hmmm "common sense..." ...doesn't "common sense," by definition (as I wrote earlier in another thread with a bad analogy) restrict itself to five "senses" perceiving something through a lens operating according to a set of "rules" not really allowing for intuition, imagination, inspiration — the spiritually inclined or of a more unfettered intelligence? Science, as common sense/tool-useful as it is, is not served by insisting it is the default arbiter of a very relative reality it doesn't pretend to investigate, for example. Moreover, common sense is a blade cutting more deeply than thought, I think. Along with many others of more quality I feel, for example, that an intelligence ordered para-terrestrial is behind the UFO as a matter of common sense.

Oh, regarding collegiate dictionaries... I try to use the right word. The odd appreciative adequately provide the justification to continue as I have without regard to them having to look the word up -- or not, eh? Thanks for the note.

Al, why is it that I find myself agreeing with you so much? Could it be that "alien view"? Perhaps bothering to think outside the expected, culturally approved box?

I quite agree with your problem with "common sense". The trouble with common sense is that it is common. Ditto for conventional wisdom. Oscar Wilde once said, "Everything popular is wrong". Einstein said, "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

Prosaic thinking is the highway to mediocrity. In an intellectual meritocracy, common sense aspires to nothing more than lemmingness or sheeple-hood. A parrot could do as well. Commonness is the dubious reward for unquestioningly drinking the cultural koolaid . It takes uncommonness to excel. In fact,the definition of excellence is that which rises above the common.

Jim, I think the term you wanted was "good sense". This implies something superior. And truly, it seems to be in short supply in these trying times. As Mr. Lehmberg implies, we must seek outside the expected boxes for that. The uncommonness of this seditious act is no doubt the reason our world is in such a fix. Perhaps more of us need to take Einstein's sage advice.

"Al, why is it that I find myself agreeing with you so much? Could it be that "alien view"? Perhaps bothering to think outside the expected, culturally approved box??"

Hmmm... could it be it's because we're both lack-witted drama-queens dreaming that we might be second rate commentators on that which we lack the homocentric and Allopathic sensibilities to comprehend more fully and more perfectly? No?

Well, then maybe it's because we perceive the "similarity across scale" necessary to relegate ourselves as apart from the necessity to make ourselves feel better at the expense of someone or something else. You think? I mean, we consider the "ant" with no real understanding. What considers us?

No?

Maybe it's because we're too entirely disgusted and will no longer easily countenance the arrogant and ill-serving "Cartesian-ista" who fails, utterly, to provide the promised payout of "closure," "understanding," "explanation," or "satisfaction" as they proclaim the insanity —or worse— of those with the temerity to question them or be remotely contrary to their world views... and blaming _them_ for their own lack of progress.

Our ignoble ignorance is our own fault it is fatuously proclaimed. Maybe if we teamed up... started a message board — flung baseless insults laced with contrived injury at an "opposition"! Hey! You know what!?

I bet _that_ would put us on the "para-topical" map!

...Cheese and crackers with that?

Icke sounds pretty snarky to me. LOL

You may be right and it may be that funny, ma'am, sincerely. Rather like Michael Jackson sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber with a chimp; a mirror, actually, "beheld" to a degree because Jackson tried to mirror what he thought the world wanted to see.

Not that funny I guess, but then neither is Icke? An "unpopular mind" perforce pushed from our sight.

...and no apologies it's slipped out that way. That's the way it must roll, eh, at the top of the day? [g].

You are right Mr.Mike, I was indeed confusing the two. I believe our leaders today are busy washing their cars in the rain. How many people today could survive being lost in a forest, find food, build a shelter or a fire? They can't change a light bulb without the "Yellow Pages" or name their representative, but they can recite the names of every contestant on American Idol.
A young man recently (and proudly I might add) proceeded to show me his architectural drawings from third year college. I proceeded to show him some of mine. He was amazed and stated that they were not at that advanced level yet. I didn't have the heart to tell him that mine were from my junior year in high school. I did however have a brief thought of suicide cross my mind. God help us,to laugh or cry? That is the question.
Please include me in the disgusted category, and Alfred, a little Merlot with the cheeze and crackers please?