hmmm, men in black?!- wow thats pretty scary... they have a lot of nerve! well i am glad that you are ok now...

Please post video of this event...unless they didn't return the tapes....

I'm so friggin' sad to hear that Season 3 will be the final season of UFO Hunters. I've been watching every episode since the show started airing and I will miss it sorely! My dad will too!

You guys rule!

"... possibly the men in black."

Dude. Come on. lol

Jeremy, what are you doing leaving a post then, if you're not willing to entertain the possibility? Just being negative for sport?

D2 - I'm friends with Bill, so feel free to not jump the gun. I think it's a funny exaggeration, but if you wanna believe the UFO Hunters may have met up with Men In Black, go for it.

"men in black" is a term for the feds, or secret service.

doesn't necessarily mean ALIENS are involved. learn fact from fiction before you critize someone.

Please, anonymous poster(s) in need of anger management, stop retorting just to be "right." Do I really have to explain the difference between being cruel and rolling my eyes, poking fun at Bill after I've said he's my friend?

But alright, your social retardation aside, I'll argue the point. If he meant feds or secret service he wouldn't have distinguished between possible men in black and Defense Department Police. But before you criticize someone for criticizing someone, please make sure you know what it is the criticizer you're criticizing said. I never said he meant ALIENS were involved.

Jeremey, you posted "just top be right." C'mom, dude. Gimme a break. You got bagged being a jerk. Let it go.

No, D2. I got "bagged" for poking fun at a friend, which was misinterpreted by a someone who still thinks it's his/her business to be upset/righteous even after this has been pointed out three times now.

You are a moron. There. Now I've let it go.

"You are a moron..."

Even if true... not "a jerk" so much, eh? I think you get cute with a buddy in a private E-mail just so it's _not_ misinterpreted by a lay public... forgetting you style yourself as that which defines rationality and sensibility in a paranormal public sphere. I regret your quick employment of fighting words may say more about you than those you too petulantly name-call...

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com

Jeremy. Who needs anger management? I didn't call you a moron. You need to lose a few pounds of testosterone. But I suspect you're too adolescent to have that awareness.

Actually, if those were fighting words quickly drawn I would have used them in my initial rebuttal post. Instead I explained myself and got further crapped on for it. And then a second time. And the fun part is that the crapping doesn't make sense. The only rational, intelligent responses after someone says, "It's okay, I'm ribbing a friend, not attacking him," is to say:

1.) Nothing at all and move on.
2.) Apologize because it's hard to tell on the net when someone's being sarcastic and you're sick of people attacking Bill.
3.) "Oh. Okay. My bad."

Instead I get more nonsensical defensive comebacks like we';re having an argument or something. Well... we weren't. But now we are. And why? Because you are a moron.

According to Google, a moron is an... "idiot: a person of subnormal intelligence."

I'm pretty sure that exactly fits the description of someone who doesn't get--STILL doesn't get--that they are wrong in spite of all the facts, and in that non-comprehension remains self-righteous and hostile.

Surely, Alfred, you can see past your loathing of me personally to acknowledge this, cantcha? Of course you can. That's what "Even if true..." implies. I mean that's as close to acquiescence as I'll get from you because I'm me and you don't like me.

I think it would have been inaccurate to call him/her a jerk. THAT would be mean alone. No, "moron" is a lot closer to the truth.

You're right about commenting in private vs. public. I guess I've been hanging out at my own forum too long. I almost forgot that far too many people into ufology have a sticks up their asses.

And I apologize to me for continuing to post and explain non-moron stuff to morons. (Not you Alfred. You're not a moron. You just like to take it to me when you get a chance and that's fair enough as I can be accused of the same.)

VAEN: "Actually, if those were fighting words quickly drawn I would have used them in my initial rebuttal post. Instead I explained myself and got further crapped on for it. And then a second time. And the fun part is that the crapping doesn't make sense. The only rational, intelligent responses after someone says, "It's okay, I'm ribbing a friend, not attacking him," is to say:"

Lehm: Hold it. Again you frame the situation as you would have it observed when it is just not that way at all. You in no way consider the sensibilities of a whole raft of people, from Bill Birnes on down, ostensibly to impose the one true faith according to Jeremy Vaeni. It's not about you, right?

VAEN: 1.) Nothing at all and move on.
VAEN: 2.) Apologize because it's hard to tell on the net when someone's being sarcastic and you're sick of people attacking Bill.
VAEN: 3.) "Oh. Okay. My bad."

Lehm: How about —

4. Not let you off so easy for perceived jibing of a man undeniably undeserving of said jibing if the only subject of his criticism broached are his blinking eyes and use of sunglasses. Your words.

5. Chide you for your perceived negativity and cat-calling.

6. Take pains to Point out your approach may be too combatively dismissive and ultimately self-defeating.

VAEN: "Instead I get more nonsensical defensive comebacks like we're having an argument or something. Well... we weren't. But now we are. And why? Because you are a moron."

Lehm: Ah, well. There you have it. Your point is as well made as it is presented. One sees ahead to where all goals of elevation and enlightenment are presumably met and exceeded. Definitely, a high road of efficacious communication and progressive dialogue. Well done.

VAEN: "According to Google, a moron is an... 'idiot: a person of subnormal intelligence.' "

Lehm: Judging's judged. Officious arrogance is not rewarded in the long term. Insulting assessment based on self-limited focus assesses only the assessor. Hubris is self-delusion.

VAEN: "I'm pretty sure that exactly fits the description of someone who doesn't get--STILL doesn't get--that they are wrong in spite of all the facts, and in that non-comprehension remains self-righteous and hostile."

Lehm: Whatever your determination of "facts" —contestable usually—and given there are more sensibilities than just your own... and that you are very obviously the center of only one universe like any of us, your last seems only the very _best_ example of what you are so ready to criticize in others: Intractability? Denseness? Defensiveness?

VAEN: "Surely, Alfred, you can see past your loathing of me personally to acknowledge this, cantcha?"

Lehm: Another mischaracterization. I am only disappointed. There is no loathing.

VAEN: "...Of course you can."

Lehm: No. It does seem that I cannot.

VAEN: "That's what "Even if true..." implies."

Lehm: No, again. Perhaps I should have emphasized "Even."

VAEN: "I mean that's as close to acquiescence as I'll get from you because I'm me and you don't like me."

Lehm: Another mischaracterization. You're glib with these. A pity too, as I love you dude, standing by everything I've said about you thus far. Currently, I'm finding your manners, your attitude, and your approach; however, contraindicated to the good things I feel you want to do, in my opinion, and would rather appreciate the imagination and incisive intelligence... coupled with the humility and lack of hubris you used to seem to have. That's "long haul" behavior.

VAEN: "I think it would have been inaccurate to call him/her a jerk. THAT would be mean alone. No, "moron" is a lot closer to the truth."

Lehm: ....And decidedly constructive, too. My impression was that you were assessed "acting" like a jerk... apart from being assessed _as_ one.

VAEN: "You're right about commenting in private vs. public. I guess I've been hanging out at my own forum too long. I almost forgot that far too many people into ufology have sticks up their asses."

Lehm: "...Sticks up their asses," Mr. Vaeni, is what you have after you shove them up there yourself to a degree, eh?

alienview@roadrunner.com
> www.AlienView.net
>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/
>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.com

So wait a second, Alfred. You're telling me that if you wrote a comment that was taken the wrong way and you explained that it was taken the wrong way and the person then responded with yet more hostile words that you would what, exactly? Offer them a cupcake? Come on, man! You'd tear 'em a new arse worse than me saying "moron," which I stand by as an accurate description more than an everyday insult.

You're the one to sail in initially on the sweep of an easy sneer, get upbraid for it, and then hang around to protest that you don't want to argue when your position makes such perfect sense, after all.

I suspect there must be consequences for your easy use of the language prosecuting your pretty limited worldview, you know. See, you don't know or understand anything. You only have faith that you do.

To this end you are judging what you don't understand based on what you errantly think you do and so discounting (over nothing!) a macrocosm based on a dodgy appreciation of a misunderstood microcosm... in my opinion. You become more tedious and boorish I'm compelled to say.

On another issue... Nice entirely unwarranted swipe, Patrick, from you and Squidward via the "Paratopiary," but I feel my prosery is just a tad more meaningful than you let on.

So is that a yes to cupcakes, then?

I do apologize, everyone. Next time I get the urge to call a moron out for moronousity I'll be sure to pass it by Alfred first. He's the new mall cop around here. And he says he doesn't believe in policing the field....

No, he doesn't mind praising and therefore supporting cult propaganda, but just try telling someone who deserves it to kiss off in his presence. Why, he'll dig that long snout right in where it doesn't belong.

What a hero you've become. It seems like just yesterday when you would have done the same thing as me. Gee, I never should have crossed you way back when, Alfred. You're sure showing me. You've shown me what a hypocrite you are. Again, I must go back to this simple fact (that evil word again!): If we didn't have a falling out, this conversation wouldn't even be happening and probably we'd be on the phone talking about what a moron that person is.

Ah, the good ol' days. I remember them fondly.

No, I don't believe you ever did. Opportunity was abundant. Then you started believing your own press releases and became wrapped in a badly fitting suit of self-involved hubris. Lost your humility. Lost your difference. You know nothing. Write your history how you want it. You've real facility with that. It just won't last, forgetting it won't be successful.

I know. I had the audacity, the hubris to put a period on the end of this sentence:

A Trickster intelligence does not control everyone from Gandhi to UFO hoaxers.

I "disagreed" with you that such a statement could be made with finality in the way one "disagrees" over Santa Claus.

That was my crime. That was my lost humility. I claimed to know SOMETHING. Horrible.

Yep -- on reflection pretty bad, given your utter lack of manners, sensibility — perhaps even fueled by a raging narcissism. You who would criticize Lynne Ketei.

Keep hanging on to that trixter stuff... you made it from whole cloth and it has nothing to do with me... your argument, your convenient frame and your world so _you_ can have some meaning not counting for very much, eh? It's not transfering to me, at any rate.

I regard you as a bumped weave in a tapestry you've alluded to with an nonconstructive, unimaginative, and mal-progressive attitude. And it's really a shame... you seemed a real facilitator for the progressive instead of the apologist for your own bad behavior which you have become, eh? You, on the other hand, an easy panderer to everything betraying you, have _me_ all figured out. [g].

"Keep hanging on to that trixter stuff... you made it from whole cloth and it has nothing to do with me"

Uh, Alfred? Actually, this was pretty much the bulk of the issue between us as I recall. I know Mike Good wrote it but you backed him up because you can't stand when someone says anything with certainty as I did. (And as you did--you're certain I'm wrong. But that doesn't count I guess.)

Hey, maybe stick that hypocrisy in one of those Ching Chow comics you love: "He who knows nothing knows something."

If that wasn't the biggest divisive issue between us then what was?

Wrong again.

My problem with you comes from the easiness with which you mis-characterize what others say to support the hostile and obnoxious way you frame your facile and reductionist arguments. It only makes your opposition more attractive.

See, all you do is about toxic ridicule, a corrosive morass where all your best points are lost.

Yeah -- I write poetry.

Yeah -- I rescue, re-ink, and color antique cartoons about a Chinese Shaman.

It remains, Mr. Vaeni, that a person who _knows_ they know nothing _does_ know something, after all. That's what _you_ miss.

Next.

Well, Alfred, I call bullshit. That may be your ever-evolving problem with me this week, but that's not where this started. Keep moving the goal post. Maybe you won't have to defend the fact that you support the notion that everyone on earth might be controlled by a Trickster intelligence anymore. Perhaps you woke up one day and realized that sounded way too much like religion for your taste but are too proud to admit it. I dunno.

I do know that narcissism is more like when a thousand people tell you your writing is incomprehensible and you maintain it's poetry and they just don't get it. It's their fault, the world's. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good example.

Toxic ridicule? As far as I can tell you've made a pseudo online career of being a toxic character. You're always in a life-or-death argument with someone aren't ya? So peas in a pod I guess. Truly, we should be cuddling a lot more than this.

VAEN -- "Well, Alfred, I call bullshit."

Lehm – That one thing you do _so_ well, but not the way you'd mean.

VAEN -- "That may be your ever-evolving problem with me this week, but that's not where this started. Keep moving the goal post."

Lehm – First I'd have to accept the premise that there are these "goal posts" of which you speak connoting "rules" to we shall adhere, in a game presumably enjoined to flesh out _your_ piece of mind regarding a paranormal sphere _you_ can't come to grips with. I just confront a noisome bully with more confidence than is remotely justified who insists on making others pay for his personal inability to satisfactorily accomplish the preceding.

VAEN -- Maybe you won't have to defend the fact that you support the notion that everyone on earth might be controlled by a Trickster intelligence anymore.

Lehm – Well ... this was step forward. We'll forget all the steps you take back when you proceed down-page. But the thing is... nobody really did what you accuse to begin with. Good was thinking out loud, you know, the way you do, only without the pompous outrage and chirpy invective.

VAEN -- Perhaps you woke up one day and realized that sounded way too much like religion for your taste but are too proud to admit it. I dunno.

Lehm – Right again... you "dunno." Good job sliding back from the lip of the usual mischaracterization when you were _almost_ there.

VAEN -- I do know that narcissism is more like when a thousand people tell you your writing is incomprehensible and you maintain it's poetry and they just don't get it.

Lehm – Maybe narcissism is more like you say, only, I have discovered that I may be a tad more comprehensible to persons who want to comprehend when compared to those who'd rather not. It _is_ poetry, prose poems actually. I've come to call it "prosery." Decidedly, I've never defended incomprehensibility _as_ poetry like you report... have in fact written several times that poetry provides for meaning in excess of that which might be found in the snappy, with-it prose -- entirely "comprehensible." Enough find me comprehensible as it turns out. Too, I remind you that it was comprehensible enough when it was in your service.

VAEN -- It's their fault, the world's. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good example.

Lehm – What?! This final mischaracterization of me via an _entirely_ nonexistent rebuttal to alleged critiques of what _remains_ to be a thoughtful and sincere production. Do you?

VAEN -- Toxic ridicule? As far as I can tell you've made a pseudo online career of being a toxic character. You're always in a life-or-death argument with someone aren't ya?

Lehm – Like you I have a horn not excludibly a funnel. ...And what do _you_ know of life and death? I won't apologize for being impassioned. There's been a lot of mud and blood and beer way outside your pampered existence, after all.

VAEN -- So peas in a pod I guess. Truly, we should be cuddling a lot more than this.

Lehm – We could have been doing that any time you wanted.

More on point... But did anyone else notice how our Dr. Birnes had the where-with-all, courage, and presence of mind to back down the legions of black officialdom, whatever the color of their clothing employed?